"There Is One God And One Mediator Between God And Men, The Man Christ Jesus" 
1 Timothy (2:5)

John 17:5 – With The Glory Which I Had With Thee Before The World Was


Q. If Jesus did not exist as God, or as God the Son, how do we explain John 17:5?


This is a good question and there is a good reason why many questions exist surrounding this passage in John.

Most Trinitarians have transliterated the sentence structure of John 17:5 as if Jesus existed with God literally “before the world was”, which is not true.


There are Five Points that are vitally important in understanding this particular passage (John 17:5).



Point #1: You Must First Understand The Translation History Of The Bible

Ref (Link: The Translation History Of The Bible )



Point #2: God Cannot Lie!

There are two important rules when dealing with God:  Rule Number One, God cannot lie.  Rule Number Two: If you think He did, refer to rule number one.



Point #3: There Are No Other Gods

Isaiah 45:5-6 – I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: 6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord, and there is none else.



Point #4: There is Only One Creator

There is one Creator and that Creator is God. Every other being comes under the category of “creature” or “creation.”


God Had No Intermediary

One of the attributes that distinguishes God as God is the fact that he alone is the creator of all things. Not only did God alone create all things; God alone was not created.

The Bible makes it abundantly clear that God had no intermediary or co-creator alongside him when he created the heavens and the earth:

(Isaiah 44:24) – Thus saith the LORD(H3068), thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD(H3068) that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

This means that nothing was created through or by God’s Son (Jesus) or through any other means other than God (Jehovah) himself. (Isaiah 45:12, 48:13; See also: The Name Of God)



This is Very Important!

♦ Jesus never, not once, claimed to have created anyone or anything. This is an undisputed fact!

♦ The problem however, as you will soon see, stems from the various publishers who determined how the “original” Hebrew and Greek texts would be translated, thereby controlling what wording would or would not be contained in their biblical publications; that which we call the Holy Bible. That is the major reason why various discrepancies seem to appear within the Bible as written. Scriptures should be in harmony, not contradict each other. As we noted earlier (See: What We Believe):



Point #5: The Translation Should Harmonize, Not Contradict

We believe that the original manuscripts were the dictates of “one directing Mind” (God), (2 Peter 1:21).

We do NOT consider the various translations as the Word of God (just the original manuscripts), but that these translations from the original manuscripts have been born out of a need for the Word of God to be transmitted to men of different races and languages.

We do NOT claim that these translations are without error; for the translations are the works of mortal men who have made no claims that their works are the products of the inspiration of God or the assistance of the Holy Spirit.


Many incorrectly teach that John 17:5 is confirmation that Jesus existed as a self-conscious person prior to the creation of the world.

Many of us who profess to be Oneness, had often incorrectly taught that this was Jesus’ place of honor as God “before” he came to this earth as a man, (then in essence God/Jesus pretended to be His own Son – (Clearly there is no sound biblical doctrine with this line of reasoning)

And verse five also cannot be interpreted to mean Jesus was “God the Son” experiencing glory with “God the Father” in a pre-incarnate existence “before the world” existed, or we make the Bible and God a LIAR (Ref: Points #2, #3)


If you do choose to accept the KJ translated version, it must be with the understanding that your interpretation MUST be in line with what GOD SAID and remain in harmony with any companion scriptures on the subject matter at hand.


Therefore and according to scripture:

♦ Jesus was only glorified when God raised him from the dead. So we know that Jesus was not yet glorified when he was here praying in John 17:5. Because of John 7:39

John 7:39  (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)


♦ Similarly, Paul speaks about something given to us before the creation of the world. However, that reality only was manifested in our time and space at the appearance of Jesus our Savior.

2 Tim 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began.


♦ Similarly, Jesus was the human Lamb slain from the foundation of the world (Rev 13:8) and this human Lamb was foreknown before the foundation of the world (1 Peter 1:20). Although he himself was not yet glorified, that glory was given by the Father to his human son before the foundation of the world. God the Father glorified Jesus when He raised him from the dead. Jesus is saying that his glorification was a done deal before creation because God the Father, in His love for his human son Jesus, had purposed it to occur.


Translation Issue

The translation used by many (Oneness & Trinitarians) distorts what Jesus said. The Greek is as follows:

και νυν δοξασον με συ πατερ παρα σεαυτω τη δοξη η ειχον προ του τον κοσμον ειναι παρα σοι


The concept of being alongside the Father is mentioned twice in this verse.

και νυν δοξασον με συ πατερ παρα σεαυτω τη δοξη η ειχον προ του τον κοσμον ειναι παρα σοι



NOTE: The problem with the translation of John 17:5 is that some publishers arbitrarily take the concept of being alongside the Father found at the end of this statement and attach it to what Jesus “had before the world was.”


The word ειναι (G1511) is translated as “was” instead of “to be” and is taken to describe the state of the world which the grammar does not require. This verb is an infinitive which means “to be.” In most Bibles (which are predominately Trinitarian structured translations) the words παρα σοι (with (G3844) thee) are essentially divorced from the word ειναι (to be) as if the latter has nothing to do with the former. This makes it appear that Jesus was having glory alongside the Father before the world was.


On the contrary, Jesus is saying that he had something before the world and that something was to be glorified alongside the Father in the future. In other words, God had predestined this to occur.

In my studies, the best translation that I personally have been able to find for this one specific passage, and remains in harmony with the original scriptures, is taken from (The Book Of Yahweh, pg. 834) which reads as follows:

5.  And now Father, glorify Me beside Your
Own Self, with the glory which I am to have with
You before the world to come.


NOTE: The same concept can also be found in Ephesians 1:4.

God also chose Christians before the foundation of the world TO BE (ειναι – the same infinitive) holy and blameless.

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